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Thread: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

  1. #21
    LVC
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    Re: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

    Nope -- never noticed any boost.

    Great delay pedal that does not get in the way of your playing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Budlite View Post
    Does the Carbon Copy boost your tone a little when the pedal in engaged?
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  2. #22
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    Re: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

    Just because something in inexpensive does not mean it is cheap.

    I think the genius of Vertex Effects is that he was able to identify great sounding inexpensive pedals. What he allegedly did afterwords with those pedals I think can serve as a wake up call to everybody who thinks the only way something can be good is if it is expensive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Baxen View Post
    5 or 6 years ago I bought a "B stock" BBE wah pedal. I bought it because I liked its sound and feel, it was cheap and I wanted to save whatever life was remaining on the Thomas I've had since the Seventies. This thread and the others like it have helped reaffirm my decision.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member amp360's Avatar
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    Re: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

    I agree. I have been laughed at by a lot of people because I have had a DOD chorus on my board for years. The thing is, that pedal that I got new in the 80s sounds and works great. I have tried a lot of other Leslie type chorus pedals including the Korg G3 Rotosphere, the Roland CE-1, Boss CE-2, etc... and while these sound cool they don't work as well as the DOD.

    What a lot of players miss, and what I think the majority of folks on this forum appreciate, is that there are some uber-low dollar solutions that work great - in some cases even better then the pricey stuff. It's knowing how to pick each piece of a rig to work well together that a lot of the people who need the most expensive/esoteric things miss.
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  4. #24
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    Re: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

    If you are a dealer and are continuing selling vertex Effects products that are questionable, would you be complacent in potentially perpetuating alleged false claims such as as have been reported about Vertex Effects Wah, vertex effects Volume Pedal and vertex cables?


    I wonder if

    1.They know about the suspicions around Vertex Effects products and if so ... are still selling them
    2. Have they been contacted by clients that feel they got ripped off by Vertex Effects

    The following are Vertex Dealers in the U.S.


    CALIFORNIA
    Bananas At Large1504 4th Street
    San Rafael, CA 94901 (415) 457-7600
    info@bananasmusic.com
    www.bananasmusic.com


    CALIFORNIA
    Black And White Blues204 S. Ola Vista
    San Clemente, CA 92672 (949) 842-3724
    info@blackandwhiteblues.com
    www.blackandwhiteblues.com


    CALIFORNIA
    Harbor Music1024 S. Pacific Coast HWY
    Redondo Beach, CA 90277 (310) 406-3090
    harbormusic1@gmail.com
    www.harbormusic.net


    CALIFORNIA
    L.A. Music Services3200 Fujita Street
    Torrance, CA 90505 (310) 787-0123
    mail@lamusicservices.com
    www.proaudioland.com


    CALIFORNIA
    Pedalshark8170 Ronson Rd. Suite U
    San Diego, CA 92111 (619) 895-7725
    pedalsharksales@gmail.com
    www.pedalshark.com


    CALIFORNIA
    Vintage King1176 W. Sunset Blvd.
    Los Angeles, CA 90012 (213) 984-4000
    vkla@vintageking.com
    www.vintageking.com


    CALIFORNIA
    Vision Guitar6300-F San Ignacio Ave.
    San Jose, CA 95119 (408) 309-7146
    bryan@visionguitar.com
    www.visionguitar.com


    COLORADO
    Wildwood Guitars804 Main Street
    Louisville, CO 80027 (303) 665-7733
    sales@wildwoodguitars.com
    www.wildwoodguitars.com


    GEORGIA
    Boutique Guitar Exchange676 N Highland Ave. NE
    Atlanta, GA 30306 (404) 733-0445
    info@boutiqueguitarexchange.com
    www.boutiqueguitarexchange.com


    GEORGIA
    Wright Tone Guitars435 Highland Ave NE #1420
    Atlanta, GA 30312 (404) 521-8786
    info@wrighttoneguitars.com
    www.wrighttoneguitars.com


    ILLINOIS
    Chicago Music Exchange3316 N. Lincoln Ave.
    Chicago, IL 60657 (773) 525-7773
    info@chicagomusicexchange.com
    www.chicagomusicexchange.com


    KENTUCKY
    Willcutt Guitars406 Rosemont Garden
    Lexington, KY 40503 (859) 276-0675
    info@willcuttguitars.com
    www.willcuttguitars.com


    MICHIGAN
    Vintage King1603 E. 9 Mile Rd.
    Ferndale, MI 48220 (888) 653-1184 x199
    scotty@vintageking.com
    www.vintageking.com


    NEW YORK
    CR Guitars12 East Market St.
    Rhinebeck, NY 12572 (845) 876-0666
    info@crguitars.com
    www.crguitars.com


    NORTH CAROLINA
    Sound Pure732 Washington St.
    Durham, NC 27701 (888) 528-9703
    eddie@soundpure.com
    www.soundpure.com


    OREGON
    Rogue Guitar Shop15 NW Greenwood Ave.
    Bend, OR 97701 (844) 447-6483
    sales@rogueguitarshop.com
    www.rogueguitarshop.com


    TENNESSEE
    Martin Music1659 Poplar Ave.
    Memphis, TN 38104 901-729-2466
    emguitar@aol.com
    www.martinmusicguitar.com


    TENNESSEE
    Vintage King2826 Dogwood Place
    Nashville, TN 37204 (615) 866-5015
    chad@vintageking.com
    www.vintageking.com


    TEXAS
    Austin Guitar House2206 West Anderson Ln.
    Austin, TX 78757 (512) 243-6036
    oz@austinguitarhouse.com
    www.austinguitarhouse.com


    TEXAS
    Austin Tone LabAustin, TX (512) 796-5772
    bussery@austintonelab.com
    www.austintonelab.com


    WISCONSIN
    Distinctive Guitar2505 S Howell Ave
    Milwaukee WI 53207 (414) 877-1666
    sales@distinctiveguitar.com
    www.distinctiveguitar.com


    Last edited by LVC; 08-24-2014 at 01:06 PM.
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    Carlos Santana

  5. #25
    Senior Member Budlite's Avatar
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    Re: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

    I contacted Vision, they play dumb and say they have heard about it but just like the endorsers , They are in it for the Money, I told them I will never do business with them. They are still waiting for all the FACTS to come out
    Mason is everyones lil darling, and with Ford , Henderson, Thorn promoting the shit, and Dealers are still pimping his products. I am done with Vertex and their endorsers,...

    Here is a response I received from Vision :

    Thanks for the email and honest concern. We have investigated this a bit along with our rep's at BBE (we are also BBE dealers) and even they are saying that there are enough variances to not warrant any legal action.

    We put the BBE Ben wah along side the Axix Wah and the NOS Axis wah and they don't sound alike at all. 95% of the jargon on the forums is blown out of proportion. I'm not saying Vertex is not at all at fault, but its in their marketing strategy in how they advertised the wah's. Did we pull open the wah's? No, don't have time for that, but I do know that BBE looked into it and were satisfied.

    The wah's are still the best sounding and performing wah's on the planet, thats why the pro's are still using the product. There are major players, who are fully aware of whats going on, are filming for Vertex as we speak because they believes in not only the product, but the company as well.

    Vertex will be releasing a statement soon that should clear up a lot of this. Until BBE tells me that its a copy, I'm not ready to throw them under the buss.

    When all this smoke clears, I'm confident that you will have a different opinion so please don't get rid of your wah until at least this all clears because as you know, it still a great wah!

    If you have further concerns, I encourage you to contact Ken at Vertex. He is more than happy to address concerns about this. His number is 203-966-2096.

    I hope you will still be our customer once your concerns are addressed and I hope its understandable that we won't hang someone without a fair trial.

    Thanks,

    Bryan


    - visionguitar





    Quote Originally Posted by LVC View Post
    If you are a dealer and are continuing selling vertex Effects products that are questionable, would you be complacent in potentially perpetuating alleged false claims such as as have been reported about Vertex Effects Wah, vertex effects Volume Pedal and vertex cables?


    I wonder if

    1.They know about the suspicions around Vertex Effects products and if so ... are still selling them
    2. Have they been contacted by clients that feel they got ripped off by Vertex Effects

    The following are Vertex Dealers in the U.S.


    CALIFORNIA
    Bananas At Large1504 4th Street
    San Rafael, CA 94901 (415) 457-7600
    info@bananasmusic.com
    www.bananasmusic.com


    CALIFORNIA
    Black And White Blues204 S. Ola Vista
    San Clemente, CA 92672 (949) 842-3724
    info@blackandwhiteblues.com
    www.blackandwhiteblues.com


    CALIFORNIA
    Harbor Music1024 S. Pacific Coast HWY
    Redondo Beach, CA 90277 (310) 406-3090
    harbormusic1@gmail.com
    www.harbormusic.net


    CALIFORNIA
    L.A. Music Services3200 Fujita Street
    Torrance, CA 90505 (310) 787-0123
    mail@lamusicservices.com
    www.proaudioland.com


    CALIFORNIA
    Pedalshark8170 Ronson Rd. Suite U
    San Diego, CA 92111 (619) 895-7725
    pedalsharksales@gmail.com
    www.pedalshark.com


    CALIFORNIA
    Vintage King1176 W. Sunset Blvd.
    Los Angeles, CA 90012 (213) 984-4000
    vkla@vintageking.com
    www.vintageking.com


    CALIFORNIA
    Vision Guitar6300-F San Ignacio Ave.
    San Jose, CA 95119 (408) 309-7146
    bryan@visionguitar.com
    www.visionguitar.com


    COLORADO
    Wildwood Guitars804 Main Street
    Louisville, CO 80027 (303) 665-7733
    sales@wildwoodguitars.com
    www.wildwoodguitars.com


    GEORGIA
    Boutique Guitar Exchange676 N Highland Ave. NE
    Atlanta, GA 30306 (404) 733-0445
    info@boutiqueguitarexchange.com
    www.boutiqueguitarexchange.com


    GEORGIA
    Wright Tone Guitars435 Highland Ave NE #1420
    Atlanta, GA 30312 (404) 521-8786
    info@wrighttoneguitars.com
    www.wrighttoneguitars.com


    ILLINOIS
    Chicago Music Exchange3316 N. Lincoln Ave.
    Chicago, IL 60657 (773) 525-7773
    info@chicagomusicexchange.com
    www.chicagomusicexchange.com


    KENTUCKY
    Willcutt Guitars406 Rosemont Garden
    Lexington, KY 40503 (859) 276-0675
    info@willcuttguitars.com
    www.willcuttguitars.com


    MICHIGAN
    Vintage King1603 E. 9 Mile Rd.
    Ferndale, MI 48220 (888) 653-1184 x199
    scotty@vintageking.com
    www.vintageking.com


    NEW YORK
    CR Guitars12 East Market St.
    Rhinebeck, NY 12572 (845) 876-0666
    info@crguitars.com
    www.crguitars.com


    NORTH CAROLINA
    Sound Pure732 Washington St.
    Durham, NC 27701 (888) 528-9703
    eddie@soundpure.com
    www.soundpure.com


    OREGON
    Rogue Guitar Shop15 NW Greenwood Ave.
    Bend, OR 97701 (844) 447-6483
    sales@rogueguitarshop.com
    www.rogueguitarshop.com


    TENNESSEE
    Martin Music1659 Poplar Ave.
    Memphis, TN 38104 901-729-2466
    emguitar@aol.com
    www.martinmusicguitar.com


    TENNESSEE
    Vintage King2826 Dogwood Place
    Nashville, TN 37204 (615) 866-5015
    chad@vintageking.com
    www.vintageking.com


    TEXAS
    Austin Guitar House2206 West Anderson Ln.
    Austin, TX 78757 (512) 243-6036
    oz@austinguitarhouse.com
    www.austinguitarhouse.com


    TEXAS
    Austin Tone LabAustin, TX (512) 796-5772
    bussery@austintonelab.com
    www.austintonelab.com


    WISCONSIN
    Distinctive Guitar2505 S Howell Ave
    Milwaukee WI 53207 (414) 877-1666
    sales@distinctiveguitar.com
    www.distinctiveguitar.com


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  6. #26
    LVC
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    Re: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

    Quote Originally Posted by Budlite View Post
    Thanks for the email and honest concern. We have investigated this a bit along with our rep's at BBE (we are also BBE dealers) and even they are saying that there are enough variances to not warrant any legal action.

    We put the BBE Ben wah along side the Axix Wah and the NOS Axis wah and they don't sound alike at all. 95% of the jargon on the forums is blown out of proportion. I'm not saying Vertex is not at all at fault, but its in their marketing strategy in how they advertised the wah's. Did we pull open the wah's? No, don't have time for that, but I do know that BBE looked into it and were satisfied.
    I thought the designer of the BBE wah made a statement that the Vertex wah was nothing more than a relabeled version of his wah.

    Maybe you should forward the Vision Guitar response to the guys at BBE Wah -- if the guy at Vision Guitar lied -- then then should lose his BBE wah distributorship.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Budlite's Avatar
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    Re: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

    I did forward the letter to BBE and here is Paul Gagon's response :

    Hi Budlite,

    I have to tell you man. My heart goes out to you and the many musicians that have been caught up in this Vertex vortex. Let me just clear up a few things first. Mason at Vertex had nothing to do with the design or development of the Ben Wah pedal. He has never worked for us or been a ghost designer/consultant in any way, shape, or form. We have been selling him complete Ben Wah pedals. Apparently he has been a dealer of our for years. I must state for the record that I have never held a Vertex Axis Wah in my hands. However, I have seen photos of the degooped circuit boards, photos of the two pedals side by side, complete component lists and pot analysis and I think it's pretty clear that it's a Ben Wah pedal.

    I have watched the various You Tube Videos and heard where the Ben Wah sounds exactly like the Axis Wah. I have also watched You Tube Videos where they sounded different. So much of the sound of a Wah is dictated by how you have the gearing of the Wah pot set as well as where the harmony control is set. Anybody who has listened to You Tube demos knows how easy it is to have variations in sounds.


    I think the suggestion from Vision is a good one. You should call Ken up at Vertex and ask him what he can do to help you. I think it would be interesting to hear what he has to say about all this.

    Vision is correct. Our Wah is a great sounding pedal. We won an award with it. We actually make a whole bunch great sounding pedals. I think guys like yourself are just looking for great gear from people that you can trust and go back to for future purchases. I'm sure you expect honest value in the products you purchase and that what you buy is, in fact, what you thought it was.


    I'm not sure where all this will end up but I think you should start by talking to Ken at Vertex. If he does not give you what you feel is proper, then I believe contacting Vision again is in order. I'm sure Vision values you as a future, long time customer.


    I don't know know what BBE is supposed to be "OK" with. I can tell you that I personally am not OK with an individual claiming to have designed my pedal, claiming to have an NDA with BBE, accusing me of bastardizing the components, and basically implying that I'm not capable of designing a Wah circuit.


    I'm also not OK with someone misrepresenting their product; where it's made, how it's made, and what's inside. And I'm certainly not OK with someone taking advantage of trusting, hardworking musicians. That is really not cool



    Best regards and best of luck.......oh......and sorry for the venting.

    Paul
    Last edited by Budlite; 09-05-2014 at 08:51 AM.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Budlite's Avatar
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    Re: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

    So, I decided to call Ken, who is Ken Volpe, We talked and Ken told me he was a dealer rep for Vertex, not sure what that means.
    But he was not on board when the vertex stuff went down, so he is having folks call Mason directly. As we talked it became clear that
    Ken and I feel a bit different as he clearly thinks Mason has made a mistake. But will choose to support him as many artists are choosing to, at least according to Ken.

    I frankly do not care what these artists think about effects pedals, but Ken did tell me Mason was working
    with Robben Ford to design a overdrive pedal ect.... I personal do not think Ken knows all the facts that we do, but perhaps he does , I am not sure. I expressed to Ken what a great guy I thought he was and how disappointed I was to hear he was working with Mason/Vertex. He could of told me to mind my own business, but he politely said that was for him to deal with.

    I respect Ken, I guess we just disagree on some things. He seems to think Mason has apologized by offering a wah redemption program.
    I told him I had heard about it but it was not on the vertex website, he said it would be, last I checked it was not. At this point it was not worth going back and forth with Ken, I do not want to argue or upset him as he may not quite know all the facts.

  9. #29
    LVC
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    Re: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

    Quote Originally Posted by Budlite View Post
    ..... but Ken did tell me Mason was working
    with Robben Ford to design a overdrive pedal ect.... .
    Has anybody posted info on what is going on with Mason/Vertex on the Robben ford forum?

    I think somebody should point all this stuff out to Rick Wheeler (he works with both Larry Carlton and Robben Ford) and hangs out in the Robben Ford Forum.

    Link to Robben's forum: Robben Ford Discussion :: Index
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Budlite's Avatar
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    Re: PSA - Vertex Axis Wah is a relabeled BBE Ben Wah

    I took a peek at the RF forum and saw nothing regarding the Vertex relabeling, of course if Mason is making
    a Robben Ford Overdrive a post regarding the Vertex Fraud may not be welcome.
    Maybe I'll try to post a link to this thread there, I am not a member there however.

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